I have always considered myself to be an open minded kind of guy. I don’t really judge….much, to each his own and different strokes for different folks etc…maybe this is born of listening to peoples problems day in and day out , or maybe it is something internal or dynamic that pushed me towards listening to peoples problems day in and day out and finding empathy and compassion when it is in short supply. Needless to say I am pretty unflappable and can easily go with the flow, but there was a situation the other week when I was DM’ing at Fan Expo that did give me a brief pause.
I don’t know what it is about the younger generation, maybe growing up sniping your buddies’ faces off in multiplayer death matches does something to you, but several of the younger pups at my tables took a very evil bent to their characters. But like I said I can roll with pretty much anything, so when there was the call to rid the town of the bandits thereby supplanting themselves as the new overlords..well that’s just enterprising, showing initiative, you know real go getters. When the bandits started a bar fight and were clearly doing non-lethal damage and they turn around and just slaughter them..well I guess sometimes you need to send a message that you’re not to be trifled with. But it was during one of the formulaic skill challenges that are standard fare for live play mods that I had a kid do something that almost left me speechless if you can believe that.
The rundown is that the bad dudes have set the town on fire and the heroes (and I say that loosely) need to organize the townsfolk to combat the fire. I am going around the table asking people what they want to do. I start with a veteran player so he can show the noobs how things are done. He doesn’t disappoint as he tells me he screams and yells at the peasants trying to shock them out of their complacency. This is exactly what I am looking for and I ask for an intimidate check, and were off to the races. Things are going smoothly until I get to this kid playing in his first game of D&D and rocking the Human Knight. He looks at me and asks if there are any dead bodies from the bandits they killed lying around. I answer yeah as my spider sense starts to tingle a little. Then he goes “well can I roast one in the fire and eat him?”…..I was like “what?….w-w-w-why why would you want to do that..like really why?” and he just smiled and shrugged. So I was like alright if you really want to dude dig in I guess. The grognard next to me leaned over and said that’s what happens when you remove alignment from the system. I also gave him a +10 bonus to intimidate checks for the rest of the session and told him that when the game was over we would be leaving from separate exits.
I know people have been playing evil pc’s since the dawn of D&D, illustrating that civilization is really a thin veneer at the best of times, but really come on man eating people, like wtf. Where is the inner voice whispering that maybe that’s not the thing to do at a public event with people you don’t know, or fuck how about ever?
I’ve never seen something quite like that, I’ll admit that up front. But younger players trying to do something that A) partly derails the plot and B) is intended to make you, the DM, slip up, seem to be pretty common norms recently. It’s not just younger players, I’ve seen older ones do as well recently but it is a pretty big annoyance. Over all, there’s got to be a strategy on how you best defuse such silliness but I haven’t found it yet.
It’s easy you say “Ok you do that…chuck what are you doing?”
Maybe I have weird friends, but I’ve seen worse. People getting naked for no reason, killing for no reason, etc.
In general, I don’t like this style of gaming anymore, I like something a little more serious. I joined a new group 2 weeks ago and we actually had a cavalier get naked and run through flowers for no reason and it’s the last game I’ll play with that particular group (because of that and many more reasons).
Maybe the worst was the pedophiliac druid who had a monkey as an animal companion and did … things with it. I had to put a stop to that…
The guy is a highly successful (read: rich) lawyer now. Go figure.
yah go figure
civilization is a thin veneer my friend, a thin veneer indeed. so where can I play some pathfinder society in the Toronto area man. also dish on this group please
Heh, you probably would get freaked out playing with me as well. At Gen Con, I had my half-orc do some unusual stuff as well.
- After killing a dire wolverine, slitting it’s body opening, finding it’s liver, and eating it’s raw liver. (This was done by Indians btw).
- After killing elves, I cut one ear off and add it to my necklace of elf ears as a trophy and because I think they’re “pretty”. (Although it’s a trophy, it’s still borderline evil).
- For tough BBG opponents, I sometimes take their heads (“so the spirits won’t return to haunt me!”) and turn them into “shrunken heads”. Yay for shrunken heads! I took two heads.
- The town was starving and it was because giant ants were stopping their mill from operating. After killing the ants, I carried some ants to the chef to create some “mystery meat”, to feed the starving masses. In Africa to this day, insects are a viable (and clean) source of protein.
But yeah, I admit this is a borderline evil character, more barbaric (and disturbing) than evil though. Many people cannot understand that though and most GMs ignore my suggestions. lol. The kid eating the bandit for no reason was strange. Maybe too many zombie video games.
nah i wouldn’t get freaked out as these are well worked out character concepts, with this kid it seemed like this is something that bubbled up from the unconscious. also i wasn’t freaked out just sort of shaking my head
I will be 32 years old tomorrow. And, I still haven’t stabbed a man to death. Yes it’s #3 on my bucket list. Scanning said list I see that “roasting a human body in a building fire and then eating it in the street for shits and giggles” is NOT on my list.
I guess I’m not as sociopathic as I’ve been diagnosed if this kid said thats what he does.
As a GM you haven’t done worse? I’ve done WAY WAY worse than that as GM. Eating people is something I aim to do each session with NPCs.
I had an NPC put (dead) humans on meat hooks (to eat later) in a session last week.
But then again, I like horror movies and the genre in general, and when I like my enemies bad, I like them bad. Although I don’t rub it in your face, my games are definitely R rated at times.
oh I would be way worse, I would be eating the pc’s family
but the game needs proper villians and I think thats falls in the realm of the dm, unless it is an agreed upon campaign.
The times they are a changing and the sociopaths are starting to pile up. And not to start an edition riot, but the current D&D doesnt even have an option for non-combat characters, even PC you meet is loaded for bear with combat powers, it sends a hack and slash message to the players.
Great post. Start wearing body armor to the cons I guess…
every*
Which edition of D&D had non-combat classes?
2e
Fighter, Ranger, and Paladin good thaco, good armor, weapon spec/two weapon/paladin bonus’
Thief, multiplier for damage
Bard Wears Chain Mail, can cast any spell use any weapon
Cleric cast harm nuff said
Druid many damage spells, shapeshifting
Wizard lol yeah they suck at combat /rolls eyes.
3e/3.5e
Barbarian, Fighter, Paladin, Ranger good BAB many bonus feats/abilities for combat
Rogue 3/4 bab massive sneak attack dice damage
Monk total combat class
Cleric/Druid so OP in combat it’s silly to question them.
Wizard/Sorceror save or die > combat
That leaves what the Bard?
So there is was ONE class in the previous 2.5 editions that was combat based? And that class could fight with 3/4 BAB, Wear Armor, cast charm/enchantment spells aka save or die and heal.
I just don’t see how people think previous editions weren’t combat heavy.
In 3.0, 3.5, and Pathfinder, there are non-combat classes. There are the NPC classes of commoners, aristocrats, and experts. I think they’re self explanatory. I think boccob’s point is that you can create a world with non-combat NPCs.
You had the option of playing a character with a non-combat focus. 4e is hands-down the most combat heavy version. 3.5 at least had npc classes (which I was referring to).
Classes that were not intended for play by players. That’s like saying you could be 0th level warrior in 2nd edition, which you could… Which is what EVERY npc without a class was.
Farmer Joe 0th level warrior.
Barkeeper homas Brady 0th level Warrior.
You can’t say 2e and 3.x are less combat heavy than 4e and site “lol you could play NPC classes” as your character. Hell in 4e no one is forcing you to take a higher stat than a 14 and be completely useless in combat just like an NPC class of past editions. In fact thanks to skill challenges a character could be built that dominates the skill roll (Bard with specific jack of all trades feat I’m thinking of you) where you’re +3 to all non-trained skills and not being a combat monkey.
Chris Perkins runs a game via podcast (video) for Robot Chicken production Team, the wizard in that game uses his “arcana” check every round to subdue a magical ballista, while the rest of the group kills dwarf statue traps, and breaks down a door.
Not a single actual creature is attacked. Oh wait.. let me guess you think every encounter is roll to hit, roll damage, roll to hit roll damage….
You could play a minion. That’s the 4e version of a NPC class, or 0th level warrior. Just saying.
omg did people really do that? that sounds more like LARPING or Community Theatre
i think you can see them starting to bring back into 4th edtion powers for non-combat use. in one of the games that I ran at the con the Wizard used “suggestion” to help convince the main villian to surrender after his minions were killed.
Some people did…usually the people you didn’t want playing with you.. why play an expert when a rogue has more skills, and can be useful with traps/sneak attack? Why play a warrior when a fighter gets bonus feats and more HP? Why play a commoner when a wizard gets spells? Why play an aristocrat when a bard can do it all?
Answer cause you want to be useless. Or because the DM imposes limits to control you through crappy classes.
are you sure they are not talking about having spells or abilities that are not damaging or have a direct combat use.
Not anymore. I’m just sick of people whining that 4e is combat heavy. The name of the game has always been about combat and treasure acquisitions.
You don’t get xp for seducing the bar wench, crafting a pipe, or working a farm… oh wait in 4e you do…it’s called a skill challenge.
Well you didn’t in 3.x or 2e or ad&d or good old red box. Black box if you’re old as dirt.
This isn’t related to your post, but I stumbled on this and it made me laugh, so I thought I’d share
http://www.collegehumor.com/video/6534168/im-such-a-nerd-with-katrina-bowden